Those inaccurate tank indicators

 

Filling outside freshwater tank #1

A couple of days ago I ran the Onan generator for its monthly exercise.  I also added 16 ounces of Seaform to the Chevy gas tank, which was about 1/2 full.  At that time all of the tanks were empty except freshwater tank #1. That tank read 1/3 full. All the other tank level indicators read empty.  Each year as summer arrives, I am aware of complaints on social media.  One of these is about those inaccurate tank sensors.  One individual over at Fakebook commented to a post asking for help "Those indicators never work.  Do yourself a favor and just tape over them."

That's a defeatist attitude and it is not necessarily accurate.  We live in a travel trailer, a 5th wheel and the Roadtrek for most of the year (about 45-50 weeks).  All of the tank level indicators work in all of those RVs and we use the fresh tanks, gray tanks and black tanks.  However, to keep them working there are a few things one must do.

One issue is soap scum.  We've experienced issues in the gray tank of the 5th wheel, in which we live for up to 6-months a year.  I could clean that tank, but I simply don't bother.  My primary reason is the tank is so large, we simply dump it every few days and don't think about it.

The Roadtrek is another thing altogether, because the tanks are small.  

2013 210P Approximate Capacities:

• Fresh water, total 36 gallons (6-gallon hot water, approx. 15 gallons outside tank #1, 15 gallons inside tank #2).
• Gray tank 23 gallons.
• Black tank 10 gallons.

Because of the small gray and black tank capacities, we pay attention to the LED indicators.

How to keep the gray and black tank level indicators working

Our Roadtrek is about 9 years old, we camp a lot and have actually lived in it for up to 100+ continuous days. All of the tank indicators work as designed and we have never had an issue with the macerator.  We use the commode, the sinks and the outside shower.  We winterize if we are trekking below 20F or expect outside temperatures to be below 32F for extended periods of time.

Now, a cynic might say that our experience is not typical, and we simply experience "good luck".  That may be true.  It might be useful to ask, "How do we keep the indicators and macerator working?" 

1. Nothing goes into the toilet except for human bodily waste and Scott septic safe toilet paper.
2. Nothing goes into the sinks or shower drain except water and soap residue.  We don't let hair accumulate in the drains. 
3. We dump the black tank every couple of days, and we always add a gallon or so of fresh water to the emptied tank.
4. We dump the gray tank after the black to flush the macerator hose with water devoid of solids.
5. After using the macerator, I lift the hose and "walk it" toward the dump, assuring all liquid drains from the hose.  I installed a very flexible Thetford "slinky" in 2014 and we have used it ever since. 
6. Each year I flush the gray and black tanks with a generous amount of fresh water. 
7. We use Dawn dishwashing liquid.
8. I once used "Happy Camper Extreme Holding Tank Cleaner".  I've got a link to the posts about that.  What we discovered was soap scum was interfering with the gray tank sensors.  We switched to Dawn and that problem went away. More about this later in this post.

Click for Links to Tank Level Sensor Posts

Cleaning and sanitizing the freshwater tanks

A couple of days ago I drained the freshwater tanks after an extended trek.  I do this so I can sanitize the freshwater tank system.  We've been in campgrounds with freshwater I considered suitable for cleaning, but not for drinking.   After one such experience and in high summer temperatures I discovered beer brewing in my outside tank #1.  Apparently, there was algae or bacteria in that water.

My procedure is straightforward. I completely drain the freshwater system.  Then I refill the freshwater tanks and drain again. That approach flushes anything in the tanks. Then I add a bleach mixture to the freshwater tanks. Here is an outline of the steps I use on our 210P:

1. Drain the hot water heater.  I usually don't sanitize the heater and so after emptying I use the bypass valves to isolate the heater, so no water enters or leaves it during the sanitizing.
2. Park the Roadtrek level, or with the front slightly lower than the rear.
3. Open the exterior freshwater tank low point drain valve.
4. Open the interior tank drain valve, which is inside the water pump cabinet.
5. Allow the entire freshwater system to drain completely and then close the exterior freshwater low point drain valve. 
6. Close the interior tank drain valve. 
7. Fill both the interior and exterior freshwater tanks once again with fresh water.  Then drain completely.  This step flushes anything in the tanks. See steps 8, 9, 10.
8. Open the exterior freshwater tank low point drain valve.
9. Open the interior tank drain valve, which is inside the water pump cabinet.
10. Allow the entire freshwater system to drain completely and then close the exterior freshwater low point drain valve. 
11. Close the interior tank drain valve. 
12. Mix 1/2 cup of bleach with fresh water and introduce it into the outside gravity fill of tank #2 (the interior freshwater tank).  1/2 cup is sufficient for about 25 gallons of fresh water.
13. Add about 10 gallons (or more, or less) to the interior freshwater tank #2.
14. Open the interior tank drain valve, which is inside the water pump cabinet. This will allow the water in that tank to flow via gravity toward exterior tank #1.
15. Allow freshwater tank #2 to empty and then close the interior tank drain valve. This will isolate the two freshwater tanks.
16. Add sufficient water to freshwater tank #1 (the exterior tank) to fill it.  
17. That's it.  Running the water pump and opening various taps will move this bleach-water blend throughout the freshwater lines.  During the summer I usually only use the exterior freshwater tank, so I close the isolator valve that drains interior freshwater tank #1.

Cleaning and sanitizing the black and gray water tanks

I did once used a chemical treatment on the gray tank.  That was in 2016 after living the Roadrek for about 100+ days.  I've included a blog link about this.  I used "Happy Camper Extreme Holding Tank Cleaner".  This is a caustic chemical which can result in burns or injury or damage. Follow all manufacturer's directions and safety precautions.  There are warnings on the product labels, and one shouldn't allow the chemical touch the skin or eyes.  I use extreme caution. 

We have since changed our procedures

We rinse the gray, black and freshwater tanks annually and then sanitize the freshwater tanks.  We only use Dawn dishwashing liquid and Dove for sensitive skin bar soap.  We have never used the interior shower, preferring those at campgrounds.  Instead, we take sponge baths.  No shampoo or residue gets into the gray tanks.  We winterize once each year, and that includes the P-Traps.  Once warm weather arrives, we fill the P-Traps with fresh water.  We keep the floor drain screw-in strainers closed at all times.  If any debris collects in the aisle or the bath, we vacuum it out before opening these strainers. 

Here's some blog posts about the issues we once had with the tank indicator's and how we resolved them.

http://roadtrek210.blogspot.com/2016/04/those-inaccurate-black-and-gray-tank.html

Accompanying Youtube Video:  

https://youtu.be/BXwLOIVVNRo

(c) N. Retzke 2022

Gasoline Conditioner - SeaFoam for RT and Onan Generator

 

Instructions on my 1-Gallon Container of Sea Foam Gasoline Additive

Knock on Fiberglass, the Onan generator is doing great, 8-1/2 years after manufacture (My 210P was manufactured in December 2012 and I took delivery in December 2013; I've had it for about 7-1/2 years).  

Is it a good idea to use a gasoline additive?  See the notes at the end of this post, including GM and Onan generator.  That said, here is my experience to date......

I do use a gasoline additive intermittently.  I've had good experience, yours may be different.  Note: This post is not an endorsement or recommendation; it is a statement of my experience. 

I use a gasoline additive primarily to stabilize the gasoline in the Onan Carburetor. When we purchased the Roadtrek in December 2013 we were only able to use it about 4-8 weeks each year.  As a consequence it was stored for long periods. Even when stored I did attempt to run the generator monthly and according to the Onan hour meter I've been largely successful. I do have a log.  However, the same gasoline could be in the Chevy tank for 3 months or more, because of limited driving.

I do also change the Onan engine oil about once each year, and I follow the manufacturer's viscosity recommendations.  I assume my good fortune to date with the generator is attributable in part to the maintenance, fuel stabilizer and monthly operation in accordance with my Onan manual.

In cold weather I do add a fuel stabilizer to the Roadtrek gas tank.  I'd been using a product called Sea Foam (r) for many years in small gasoline engines including outboard motor, snow blowers and lawn mowers.  There are other products, such as Sta-Bil(r) which I used some decades ago. 

I add SeaFoam to the gas tank usually when storing the vehicle.  I don't add it to every tankful of gas.  I began buying the 16 oz. bottle but switched to the 1-gallon container. because it is less costly per ounce.  I've probably used about 20 pints to date.

I transfer the SeaFoam to SIGG bottles so I can carry it with me. I usually have two in the outside storage of the Roadtrek. When full, these each hold 20 ounces; I usually don't fill them to capacity. 

According to my Chevy passenger van manual, the fuel tank is 31 gallons capacity.  

I checked the label on my gallon container of SeaFoam and here are excerpts from the printed instructions:

"For Fuel Stabilization Use 1 pint [16 ounces] to 16 gallons to stabilize and condition fuels.....

Use 1 ounce per gallon for 4-cycle engines.....Add more to clean, less  to maintain."

1 oz per gallon is 16 ounces per 16 gallons. I usually add when the tank is half full if I am planning to store the vehicle. I then take a short trip in the Roadtrek to mix the conditioner into the gas. That's about 16 ounces per 15-1/2 gallons of gasoline.  I then run the generator at about half load for an hour which pulls the conditioned gasoline into the Onan carburetor and exercises it well. I do allow the generator a cool-down period under low load.

As a consequence the Onan generator may have as much as 1 ounce of SeaFoam per gallon of gasoline stored in the carburetor.

I don't use SeaFoam with every tank of gas, nor do I add it to the gas tank each and every time I run the Onan.  However, I do flush the Onan carburetor and fill it with new gas by running it once each 4-5 weeks.  On occasion, I may miss a few days.  The Onan hour meter indicates I do run it on average slightly less than one hour per month. 

Is it expensive?

One gallon of SeaFoam is about $55.  I have used 2+ gallons in 7-1/2 years.  That's a cost of about  $7.33 per year. In recent years I've stored the vehicle less and so I use less.  The 210P currently has about 45,000 miles.

Is it recommended by automotive manufacturers?

I unaware of any automobile manufacturer which recommends gasoline additives. The Chevy 3500 manual for my Roadtrek states "GM Fuel System Treatment Plus is the only gasoline additive recommended by General Motors."

What does Onan say about this? 

My genset manual (for KV) says this about gasoline additives:

"Storing the Genset - Proper storage is essential for preserving top generator performance and reliability when the genset cannot be exercised regularly and will be idle for more than 120 days.  

1. Gasoline Models. Fill the fuel tank with fresh fuel and add a fuel preservative ("OnaFresh" TM) , following the instructions on the container label. Unless a preservative (stabilizer) is added, the gasoline in the fuel system will deteriorate causing fuel system corrosion, gum formation and varnish-like deposits which can lead to hard starting and rough operation. 

Then run the genset for about 10 minutes at approximately 1/2 rated power to fill the fuel lines with the fresh fuel and preservative."

Original material http://roadtrek210.blogspot.com/ (c) 2021

Onan RV Generator Set

Onan Circuit Breaker

Originally posted at http://roadtrek210.blogspot.com/
Scrolling to the bottom will reveal a copyright notice. There has been such a notice on this blog since the original date of inception in 2013. All material on this blog is copyrighted by me or the respective owners. Copying it and placing copied files on Social Group websites is prohibited...

The original blog includes disclaimers, etc. See the end of this post for a copy of those disclaimers....


Update September 5, 2021:
Added troubleshooting information.

Update April 5, 2018:
Added power decrease information for altitudes above 500 feet (163m) above sea level. Updated miscellaneous info and added air filter photo.

Comment added February 1, 2018:
Over at a FB group: "Onan update: ok... so went to check oil level this morning and low and behold there is oil all over driveway........... Matthew at Roadtrek said one should not drive while running generator.... I was told that was good way to exercise it and not disturb my neighbors."

Here's my comment: "I know it is inconvenient, but Onan recommends a physical inspection of the generator before running it. While that may be unrealistic given the under mount, frequent inspections (or at least once a month before that two hour exercise) might be prudent."

Original Post, updated:

Oil fill cap and dipstick - Loosened to show threads

Our RT included the optional gasoline powered Onan 2.8 kW generator set.  I'd read some negative comments about generators in RVs, including Roadtreks. At one time the president of that company stated that the generators were their number one maintenance issue, or words to that effect.

I was concerned. So I read all of the Onan-Cummings documentation including the "Operator Manual" and "Installation Manual" and I decided to follow all of the recommendations. One concern I had was changing the engine oil. The generator is mounted under the vehicle and seemed to be difficult to get to. It really wasn't that difficult and this post includes photos of how I did it. 

I have also obtained a copy of the "Onan RV Genset Service Manual KV KVC KVD".  I've read and studied them all. 

This blog indicates that I can do some basic service tasks. For example, I have been able to do my own engine oil changes. This wasn't as difficult as I expected.  In fact, my experience with this generator has been a very good one for 5-1/2 years, as of September 2021. I do exercise the generator about monthly, I do check the oil level and I am inclined to replace the oil level at a shorter interval. I view the intervals for service in the manuals as the "maximum".  That's my perspective and I do realize others think these are merely "suggestions".  

I'm not yet at 150 hours, but I will be replacing the air filter in early 2022 and I'll probably replace the fuel filter and the spark plug at the same time.  I'm a "preventative maintenance" advocate because I really don't like breakdowns.

Here are some Onan recommendations for my generator set, which is a model 2.8KVFA26100K "IMPORTANT - Refer to your genset manual for the "official" manufacturer's recommendation for your genset. This does not relieve you of the responsibility for proper maintenance of your genset."

1. The gasoline powered generator on my Roadtrek should be exercised two hours per month. Onan states that a two hour continuous run is better than several short duration runs. 
2. Onan states that the generator should be exercised with a half load. 
3. Onan recommended a "break-in" period with specific instructions. I followed them. The Onan manual is very specific about loading and oil viscosity during this period. 
4. Onan recommended single weight oil over multi-viscosity. However, it also recommended several different oil viscosities as determined by minimum and peak ambient temperatures. 
5. Onan recommends a gasoline additive. 
6. Onan recommends an initial oil change at 20 hours, and thereafter at 100 hours, unless used under dusty conditions. In dusty conditions the oil is to be changed every 50 hours. 
7. Onan recommends a general inspection every day of use.
8. Onan recommends checking the engine oil every 8 hours of use. 
9. Limit the cranking time with specific duration pauses. 
10. Set the "altitude adjustment" to match the current altitude. 
11. Onan recommends "Before the first start of the day....inspect the genset as instructed under CONDUCTING GENERAL INSPECTIONS..." I do as that list recommends. Actually easy.

I've followed Onan's recommendations, with one exception.

1. I don't change the altitude adjustment from day to day. More on that later in this post.  

Some things I do which might contribute to my [good] experience:

1. I followed the "break-in" recommendations.
2. I add "seafoam" gasoline additive to the RT210 tank. I do this during fill-up when I expect to run the genset on that tank of gas. I purchase the seafoam in a large, one gallon container to save money. One gallon has made it for three years.
3. I do exercise the generator frequently and attempt 1-1/2 to 2 hours per month.
4. I do use the recommended oil viscosity and per Onan's manual I use single weight oil where practical.
5. I change the oil with seasonal changes, whether I've reached the number of hours or not. I travel from below freezing temperatures to 100F with the anticipation of using the generator. 

My longest period using the generator was overnight in New Mexico with a low of about 25F. I ran it all night. Not a problem. The only issue I have experienced to date (since December 2013) was running it to exercise it at temperatures below 20F. It did start, but it had the "break in oil" in it which might have contributed to the reluctance to start.

Why exercise the genset drive? 

The manual for my Onan generator set states "Exercising the genset drives off moisture, re-lubricates the engine, replaces stale fuel in fuel lines and carburetor and removes oxides from the electrical contacts and generator slip rings. The result is better starting, more reliable operation and longer engine life." (emphasis is mine).

Reaching the genset to do maintenance

Of course, to change the oil or to set the altitude adjustment requires getting to the genset. In my case it is mounted under the vehicle.  Initially I tried to do this in cold weather while wearing a moderate weight coat. It didn't seem possible. However, by removing the coat I was able to easily slide in from the side of the vehicle. Here is what I determined:

1. Wear light weight clothing.
2. Put a "blue" fiberglass tarp under the rear of the vehicle. This is "slippery" and makes it easy to slide in or out on one's back and with little effort. 

Troubleshooting, per Onan Service Manual

The following does provide some ideas about possible causes for common problems. For complete details, including diagrams and corrective actions for these and other problems, refer to the Onan Service Manual. Onan Factory WARNING: "Many troubleshooting procedures present hazards that can result in severe personal injury or death. Only trained and experienced personnel with knowledge of fuels, electricity, and machinery hazards should perform service procedures. "

1. Engine does Not Crank:

• Open control fuse F1.
• Insufficient cranking voltage.
• Start solenoid (K1) not energized.
• Starter (B1) not energized.
• Will engine crank from the start-stop switch mounted on the generator?

2. Engine cranks but does Not Start:

• Restricted fuel supply.
• Faulty ignition due to worn or fouled spark plug.
• Sticking choke or carburetor mixture screws incorrectly adjusted.
• Fuel pump (E2) not working.
• Governor linkage stuck or binding.
• Oil level switch (S2) closed due to low oil level or defective switch.

3. Engine Starts But Stops When Start Switch is Released:

• Low oil level.
• Defective low oil level switch. 
• No field flash voltage.
• Defective generator, control assembly or voltage regulator VR1.

4. Engine Starts and Runs, Then Stops. Generator Set Immediately restarts or after Cooldown:

• Fuel level is below genset set fuel pickup tube (about 1/4 tank).
• Oil level is low.
• Faulty choke operation. 
• Vapor lock from high ambient restrict airflow. 
• Contaminated or incorrect fuel. 

5. No AC Output. This may cause Generator to stop when Start Button is Released:

• Open circuit breaker. 
• Open circuit between stator connections Q1 or Q2 and voltage regulator.
• Open circuit between battery Pos. (+) and voltage regulator pin 7 for field flash.
• Brushes not making good contact. 
• Slip ring surface is rough or pitted.
• Capacitor C1 shorted.
• Defective generator, control assembly A1 or voltage regulator VR1.

6. Engine Runs Rough:

• Dirty air or fuel filter. 
• Contaminated fuel.
• Lean fuel mixture.
• Faulty ignition, due to worn or fouled spark plug or ignition wire.
• Carburetor icing.

7. Engine Lacks Power:

• Dirty air filter. 
• Restricted fuel flow.
• Exhaust system blocked or restricted.
• Carburetor air preheater set incorrectly.
• No load speed set too low.
• Incorrect fuel mixture.
• Incorrect valve lifter clearance or worn valves.
• Excessive engine wear.

8. Engine Hunts or Surges:

• Fuel supply problem.
• Incorrect fuel mixture.
• Governor problem.
• Carburetor icing.

9. Engine Shuts Down and Will Not Restart:

• Low oil level.
• Low oil level switch defective..
• Worn spark plug.
• Flooded fuel system.
• Choke not opening.
• Faulty ignition system.

10. Engine Runs on After Shutdown:

• Fouled spark plug.
• Engine carbon build-up.

Changing the oil or checking the oil level

This is relatively easy in my 210P. There are two slide "tabs" which hold a removable access cover in place. Pushing them both up releases the cover. This provides access to the "oil fill cap and dipstick."

Removing the cover also provides access to the "altitude adjustment."

Tools required to change the oil in my genset:

1. 14mm socket set
2. Torque wrench 21 lbs-ft (27 N-m) if available. 
3. Small crescent wrench (less than 6 inch); OPTIONAL
4. Small plastic funnel

Why the crescent wrench? I couldn't get enough torque with my left hand to rotate and loosen the "oil fill cap and dipstick." So I gentlyused a small 4 inch crescent wrench to provide some leverage. But that's a plastic cap, so I had to be careful.

Onan oil recommendations - Check your manual before selecting

Onan Recommendations per the manual for my Genset

Steps for oil change (see photos):

1. Run the genset as recommended by Onan to heat 
2. Slide the access cover latches up. CAUTION. Some components will be hot!
3. I first remove the "oil fill cap and dipstick." I do this because if I first dump the oil and then have difficulty and can't remove the oil cap, I'll have a generator with no oil. I would be committed and unable to run the genset until I found a way to remove the oil cap and add the required oil. Of course, accidentally running a generator without oil is a certain means of destruction. 
4. Then I place a 1 quart container under the "oil drain plug." An old coffee container works well.
5. Loosen the "oil drain plug" and let it flow into the container beneath.
6. After the oil has drained tighten the drain plug (recommended 21 lbs-ft (27 N-m) per my Onan manual.
7. Insert the small plastic funnel.
8. Gradually pour fresh oil into the funnel until the proper amount is in the generator. In my case, 1 quart of 30W for temperatures "32F (0C) and higher." All according to the Onan manual. 
9. Insert the "oil fill cap and dipstick" and confirm the oil level is proper. 
10. Tighten the  "oil fill cap and dipstick."
11. Replace the access cover.
12. Dispose of the old oil responsibly. There are numerous recycling options available.

Altitude adjustments and Power versus Altitude
Onan states that power decreases at higher altitude (this is per their manual):

• Up to 500 feet (162 m) above sea level = 2800 watts (rated power)
• At 2500 feet (762 m) = 2604 watts
• At 5500 feet (1676 m) = 2310 watts
• Above 5500 feet = 2310 watts decreased by 98 watts for every 1000 feet (305 m).

Onan recommends setting the adjustment for the current altitude. I've left it in the position originally set by the Roadtrek factory, or the manufacturer. My bad? I've never use it above 4500ft or lower than 300ft above sea level.

Photos

Onan nameplate - This is the model that is in my Roadtrek

Oil fill cap and dipstick, after loosening

Oil drain plug

Loosening the oil drain plug

Draining the oil

Oil draining into the coffee can

Oil fill point, with "oil fill cap and dipstick" removed

Plastic funnel inserted into oil fill point

Altitude adjustment

Air filter (Onan manual recommends "perform more frequently when operating in dusty environments":

Disclaimer

This blog is my gift to you. I do have some google ads here, but the blog posts are entirely by me. So enjoy! The web provides information, entertainment and dis- or mis-information. That's reality. My posts include my experiences and yours might be different. With these differing realities, you must be aware of the following:

By using this web site or any information referenced thereon, you agree to release and hold harmless Roadtrek210.blogspot.com, its contributors and representatives from any liability. Any products, materials, procedures, and all information, advice and instruction are given as general guidance only. All safety instructions on products should be followed. The material is distributed "as is," and no express or implied warranties of any kind are made, including, but not limited to, fitness for a particular purpose.

Roadtrek210.blogspot.com (c) 2021