Cool and Cold Weather Trekking

A Snowman in New Orleans, Louisiana
Complete with hard hat and safety vest

Early morning in 19 ft. All-electric Sprinter after an 18F night.
G is making oatmeal with water heated on the electric cooktop,
Our first Trek, no microwave, just an electric cooktop, no furnace either
Just a small electric heater  - a real camping experience,
we have made some changes since then!

Hint: Click on images to enlarge them.....

If you want to winter RV, well here is a possible vehicle,
 built on a PistenBully Snowtrak (Peterson Equipment Co).

We don't always plan to do winter camping - Winter Happens!
Winter happens, even in New Orleans LA there is sub freezing weather and snow, from time to time.  I've also encountered this in Charleston, SC. too, and so on. I've experienced snow in July, too. When trekking in the late fall or winter, it is quite likely we will encounter sub freezing weather for a day or a few days.

This post is about our experiences in cool to cold weather trekking and how we did it. We choose to be comfortable in the winter and we hope this post will provide you with some ideas, and that your winter treks are both fun and comfortable.

Some of our modifications accommodate hot weather trekking, too.  We may not plan on living in our Class B Roadtrek in below freezing weather, but we will travel with it in freezing weather and we have spent a few days in nighttime temperatures as low as 5 F.

I am not advocating living in a Roadtrek in continuous below freezing temperatures. There are practical issues to deal with, and this post points out some of them. I am writing that trekking comfortably in freezing conditions is possible.  Living in our Roadtrek 210P in sub freezing temperatures even for a few days has been a challenge. Open the door and that snow, sleet and cold enters our living domain.   Having plentiful hot and cold running water is a dream. However, we will and do encounter below freezing temperatures while trekking and our 210P has kept us comfortable. This post is about that kind of trekking, going from place to place and in the process encountering cold weather, and dealing with it in comfort. For example, our longest trek was 110 days, but we only encountered cold weather for a few of those. That was a combination of choice, and flexibility. We can and do escape the majority of the cold weather. "Have Roadtrek will Travel" LOL.

Read on to see how we deal with the limitations. I also point out that some of the things we do are advantageous to improved comfort during hot weather trekking. This is so because the issue we are dealing with is the outside temperature, both high and low, and extremes will impact our interior comfort.  Some methods to deal with those outside temperature extremes are equally effective in both hot and cold weather. Of course, in hot weather we aren't concerned with freezing water systems.

Experiences
Our first trek in our 210P put us into winter conditions because we simply couldn't escape to warmer weather fast enough. That's the reality when one treks in late fall or early winter. Weather has a way of intruding. Fortunately for me I've done a lot of winter tent camping. G on the other hand really loves the snow but wants to hunker down in front of a fireplace as soon as possible.

We've taken what we think is a realistic approach to our desires in trekking via our Roadtrek. If we travel in the early spring, the fall or early winter we should expect to encounter cold conditions. So it is best to prepare for it.  It's again that time of year and we are thinking of trekking and keeping comfortable in our Class B RV as the outside temperatures decrease. We are prepared. When trekking in winter conditions we do carry hats, hoodies, winter coats, scarf, gloves, warm socks and boots.  I even have a balaclava. This is as much as a preparation for breakdowns as for anything else.

Each year we encounter sub freezing weather. We have trekked and overnighted down to 5 F in our 2013 210P. That winter night was not planned, but we had prepared. Our 210P has kept us comfortable, but there were some things we had to figure out, and some things we did to improve the winter conditioning of the 210P. This included enhancements to active and passive temperature controls.

Our first cold weather experience was six years ago in a rental Class B in some of the National Parks in Utah. When nighttime fell below 20F, we had some difficulty keeping comfortable. Our only source of heat was a small electric heater, and we didn't have sleeping bags; just a down blanket. We learned from that experience and modified our approach. The 210P was a vital step in that. We have yet to use sleeping bags, because in our 210P they aren't necessary for us.

Winter at about 7500 ft elevation - " a real snot freezer"

June Morning

Walking at 10,600 feet elevation, in June

Comfort Factors
Temperature based comfort in a class B (or any RV, for that matter) is determined by a variety of factors. Comfort includes:

• What we wear (dry clothing preferred),
• Type of undergarments (wicking is better),
• What we eat (warm foods, liquids and carbs in cool weather); good food makes winter weather far more enjoyable,
• The amount of activity (more is better in cold weather),
• The insulation in the RV (to assist in keeping interior temperatures moderate and reduce heat loss) in winter, and reduce heat gain in summer,
• The amount of moisture in the air inside the RV (too much results in condensation in the winter, too much in summer is simply "sticky"),
• The ventilation in our RV (to keep interior moisture under control). 
• The energy sources available (for both heat and cooling),
• Floor construction and carpeting.
• Where we park. In daylight, that sunlight can help heat the RV. However, at night there is no solar heat available. In hot weather, we prefer the shade.

Furthermore, comfort is relative and subjective. Under high activity conditions in cold weather we are not nearly as susceptible to the environment as we are during periods of low activity. Burning calories releases heat, warms our muscles and improves our attitude.  The converse may be true in hot and humid weather conditions.  However, the focus of this post is cool to cold weather.

There was a time when they called Class Bs "Camper Vans" with limited amenities. Today some are being promoted at "Glamper Vans" and some include heated floors, etc. but there is still the weather to deal with. Open the door on your Glamper Van and you will get a dose of the winter reality you are travelling in.

My "Other" Camping Experience
Prior to roadtrekking I was a backpacker and ground camper. We camped for short periods in winter weather and I was trained and learned enough to be proficient at doing it and to pass what I learned to others.  Skill and technique really does make a difference. The lowest temperatures I experienced with such camping was -25F (-32C). That was definitely a challenge, because our only source of heat was a campfire! In my opinion the most comfortable winter camping was at about 10 to 15F (-10C) . At those temperatures humidity was low, air temperature was not in the "frigid" range, simple steps avoided frostbite and our warming campfires were adequate.  We could and did cook outdoors under those conditions. Of course we slept in sleeping bags. However, this post is not about that.

Our first cold weather trek - a learning experience
Cold weather is determined by geographical location and altitude.  When trekking we are changing both and at the higher altitudes we do encounter cooler weather. Of course there is the dreaded "Arctic Vortex" whatever that is.

Our first cold weather trek was not in our Roadtrek. It was in a rental Class B. This was an all-electric coach with a two burner electric stovetop. It had no propane,  no microwave and no furnace. Interior heat was from a small portable electric heater, or running the engine. We were pretty much dependent upon that 120VAC 30 ampere electrical connection and solar panels. That was an October experience in Utah at National Parks with temperature dipping below 20F at night. We learned a lot from that experience and it did require that G wear mittens inside. The trek was a wonderful experience, but I decided I wanted multiple energy sources in my Class B. G simply wanted more comfort. We used that experience to make a list of what we wanted and what we would do differently.

Heat, cooling and cooking is determined by Energy Sources Available.

Our second winter trek, in a multi-energy sourced Roadtrek
Our second trek, in the first week of December 2013 was interrupted by winter. That was not the plan, but our departure was delayed. This was to be our "shakedown" cruise in our newly purchased 210P. We were headed to Florida a week after purchase, but had to deal with the consequences of a sudden cold weather front. Yes, these things do happen when travelling from the Midwest to the South. It was a comfortable experience, but additional modifications, many simple,  have since made our trekking even more comfortable.

First winter overnight stop in the Roadtrek, kept warm with the generator and the propane furnace.
Getting ready for the morning departure.

Nietzschean Experiences?
We've put all that we've learned to good use. That includes my previous activities as a backpacker and cold weather camping advocate. However, G does not share my enthusiasm for this. So it has been my goal to do things that make our treks in hot and cold weather as comfortable as possible. One measure of my success is the fact that after six years of trekking, G is even more enthusiastic about this. No simple feat if you have arthritis.

The purpose of this blog is to share what we have learned. This post is about cool or cold weather trekking. It is not about winter survival, or living in our Roadtrek through the winter with subfreezing conditions. I assume the reader has a desire to be comfortable hot or cold, rain or shine. I also assume the reader wants to have functional plumbing......

Maintain the chassis and the coach 
It is important that the vehicle be maintained. This is the foundation of all treks and there are two aspects, the chassis and the coach.

We recently completed our 38,000 mile checkup at the Chevy dealer. This included:

• Change engine oil (full synthetic) and filter, 
• Check air cleaner,
• Inspect tires, 
• Rotate tires and reset TPMS (tire pressure monitoring system),
• Check brakes,
• Multi-point lubrication,
• New windshield wipers,
• Check and top off all fluids,
• Check doors,
• Inspect undercarriage,
• Verify head lamps, taillights, etc. are functional.

I did my own coach inspections and we did the following:

• Run hot water heater, inspect anode,
• Flush and then winterize the water systems (fresh, black, grey),
• Replace battery separator,
• Test all interior hinges, latches and replace one,
• Check coach batteries,
• Clean entire interior,
• Check backup camera and monitor,
• Do monthly run of Onan generator and check oil level (not due for replacement),
• Top off the propane tank (added 4.4 gallons at Tractor Supply),
• Run the refrigerator and then clean the empty interior, new baking soda freshener,
• Run the heat pump and furnace,
• Run the overhead fan, clean. 
• Verify Tripp Lite charger and inverter operation, 
• Test all lamps,
• New batteries for temperature monitors and CO monitor,
• New batteries for portable lights
• New batteries for refrigerator interior fan (an add-on),.

Our well equipped Class B
Our Roadtrek has the following. Some was original equipment and some we added. We use them all:

• Heat Pump/Air conditioner (good heat to as low as about 40F) - 120VAC,
• Propane Furnace (as long as there is 12VDC and propane, good to go) - 12VDC and Propane,
• Ceramic portable heater 750 watt/1500 watt (which we added, and good if there is 120VAC),
• Water heater - Propane,
• Reflectix for windows (which we added, keeps heat in and reduces condensation on windows),
• Circulating fan (which we added, distributes the heat and minimizes cold spots),
• Electric blanket, dual zone (individual comfort settings, 120VAC)
• Two-burner stovetop - Propane (we seldom use this),
• Inductive electrical burner and cast iron skillets, etc. (which we added) - 120 VAC.
• Screen for passenger side front window (home-made to improve summer ventilation and keep the bugs out. Our Roadtrek has a screen for the side door and one for the rear door. We have not yet used the one for the side door. 
• Carpeting for the kitchen area. We use a "Quick Drying Memory Foam bath runner 24 x 58 inches". 

Class B Comfort Issues
For one thing, most Class Bs are not well insulated. Our Roadtrek 210P is about R-4.5 according to an email I received in response to my query to Roadtrek. However, single pane glass is about R-0.1 which is just about "nothing" as in "no insulating value". A Class B has a high percentage of glass, compared to the overall surface area of the RV.  That glass creates a constant struggle to maintain comfortable internal temperatures.  Heat escapes from the inside in winter, or comes from the outside to the inside during the summer.

According to the manufacturer, our Roadtrek was designed for 3-1/2 seasons. Well, yes, but one better know what they are doing if they want to trek outside the 3-season envelope and in sub freezing weather. The good thing is, these things can be learned, and a few techniques and modifications can help.

We realized that if we planned to trek comfortably below freezing that we would have to augment the insulation in our Roadtrek. After purchase we have trekked with nighttime temperatures as low as 0 F and daytime highs in the teens. We carry Reflectix cut for every window except the side entry, including the front windshield. We have also done other things to be comfortable in the cold and in the hot.

Reflectix is inexpensive.  I purchased a 50 ft x 48 inch roll. (I use it in three rigs).

Reflectix visible in the Passenger Door Window - cool, dry weather

Reflectix in the front windshield and a sunshade, too (during hot, full sun weather)

Issues - Be aware of conditions and limitations - Do not fight the weather!
Prudence dictates that we avoid really serious weather situations.  We check the weather frequently when cold weather trekking. Not only where we currently are and where we are going. We also check weather patterns that are bearing down on us in 24 hours and longer.  If there is a possibility of really bad weather G and I have an agreement that we will hunker down in a motel; we have yet to do that. In my opinion this is common sense.  We also make reservations when trekking. Of course, one can also hang out in a truck stop if necessary, and we have slept at rest stops and so on. For example, the Ohio Turnpike has limited areas for RVs at some official rest stops, which includes 120VAC 30/50A service for a fee.

I do need to point out that we have had reservations, were delayed en route, called the campground office and were told "No problem, the office will be closed but there will be an envelope with your campsite information on the bulletin board". Upon arrival we retrieved that information and drove to our site, only to find that someone else had taken it.   That can and will happen when weather conditions get ugly. Apparently under those situations those of us who don't plan are willing to hijack a spot in a campground. In our situations, we've been fortunate to find a place to park and we do have a generator. My point is, if you expect your fellow trekkers to keep their agreements, then dream on..... It is a jungle out there.....

Some states have limited capacity to deal with snow and ice. It is prudent to be mindful of that. We've trekked across north Texas at 25 MPH because of poor road conditions.  Something to keep in mind when making those time-to-distance calculations and destination arrival estimates.

We don't fight the weather. We sometimes take a long bypass, or delay our trek so as to avoid serious weather situations, or road conditions that we might not be comfortable in.  Those mountain passes are not fun in bad weather. We also will adjust our plans to accommodate reality.  Our goal is to eventually get to a warmer destination and we maintain our purpose.  When the weather does get "ugly" we stick to interstates or other very major roads. Breakdowns can and do happen and we don't want to be stranded on some seldom travelled two-lane highway going across 50 miles of prairie or whatever. Keep in mind that it is important to be accessible when issues do occur.

My mantra is "icy conditions must be avoided". We've encountered ice and when we do we stop. We have stopped and boondocked when freezing rain began and waited until the sun was up the next morning. After the roads had warmed and thawed did we resume our journey.  Many southern states have minimal snow removal equipment, don't use salt but prefer sand or "nothing". In those areas, people generally wait a day or two for the storms to pass and things to thaw. We do what the locals do.

I'll try to avoid North-South routes that cross what I call the "freeze line".  It is in that area that I've encountered some really poor travel conditions. So we'll head southerly and try to get below that weather line. However, sometimes those situations can go very far south, and they simply can't be avoided.  A few years ago I was driving from New Orleans to Chicago, and a cold front dumped rain in Louisiana and Mississippi was a complete icycle. I slept in a rest stop.  The next morning things were better, but not by much. It was a frozen landscape all the way north.

Here's a spring route we took, to see a few things and avoid some nasty weather:

From Arizona to Michigan and Illinois, via a circuitous, warmer route

Seldom travelled roads might not be the best route in winter weather

Fresh Water and grey and black tank limitations
If one is to winter trek, there are the issues of fresh water and how to deal with wastewater. That includes the black and grey tanks. In my opinion this is the primary limit to cold weather camping in  our Class B. It does not have heated tanks and most piping is not protected or insulated from the cold. If the pipes and tanks freeze expensive damage can be the result. This does severely limit our ability to live "full time" in our 210P in cold weather unless there are other means and sources for fresh water, and a nearby heated toilet and shower.

If it is continually below freezing, the only way to get fresh water into my Roadtrek is to put it into smaller containers, such as a 1-1/2 gallon container in the photo, and store it inside. (More on the interior fresh water tank later in the post). Some campgrounds do provide water to a heated spigot (our experience in Breckenridge CO, for example) but the heat tape stops at the valve, and the whole contraption is in an insulated box. Even if I had an electrically heat traced fresh water hose, my Roadtrek would still freeze. 

Portable Water Container

We Winterize if trekking in below freezing conditions
I am going to be very honest here. The outside fresh water tank will freeze and anything in the grey or black tank in our Roadtrek will freeze at sustained temperatures below 32F (0C).  If the daytime goes well above freezing it will heat the tank contents and they may rise above freezing, but at night the temperature of the contents will fall as the outside ambient temperatures fall.  The contents may freeze. In other words, if both daytime and nighttime temperatures are sub freezing, then the outside fresh water tank, the grey tank, black tank, macerator, dump hose and under-chassis fresh water piping will freeze. Game Over!  The macerator cannot pump chunks of ice......

If we are trekking in sub freezing conditions, we winterize our 210P.  The inside fresh water tank can be used "in mild freezing conditions" according to my Roadtrek manual. However, there are restrictions. We do not use fresh water in the interior tank in the winter. We winterize the entire water system and carry portable containers of water. We add antifreeze to the gray and black tanks and use the sinks and toilet sparingly.  I carry two gallons of pink antifreeze with me. Sanitary wipes are a good substitute for running water for additional cleaning of hands, etc. 

Roadtrek's manual about Winter Use
Here is some of the text of the Roadtrek manual for my 2013 210P (from page G-2). This is provided as an illustration and your manual may differ:

"WINTER USE: (Moderate Subfreezing Conditions, -10C (14 F)):
The dual tank system allows you to use the fresh tank system under moderate subfreezing conditions by allowing you to isolate and drain the exterior fresh water tank.
During winter use:

• Use gravity fill of interior tank only. [My Comment: This tank has about 10 gallon capacity and that gravity fill is on the right rear door jamb. Adding water to this tank requires a fully open rear door while pouring water via a funnel or container with attached hose into the fill point. This is not something I want to do in sub freezing conditions].
• No outdoor shower (close the "mystery valves").
• Waste water tanks are unprotected from freezing unless charged with antifreeze.
• Interior temp must be maintained above 65F (18 C). 
• Fridge must be turned ON.
• Exterior fresh tank must be drained.
• Exterior shower and city fill valves (Picture G-P7) must be closed and shower and city fill (See Picture G-P0) must be drained. 
• To drain the city fill, depress the center of the check valve (figure G-P0) with a finger or blunt object to release the pressure and drain the water or antifreeze."  
• [There is additional info in the manual and additional steps] "To prepare your motorhomes fresh water system for winter use you must do the following:"   [See 2010-2013 210P Manual Page G-2]....This is basically about winterizing the Roadtrek. 

Avoiding freezing of the gray and black tanks
Using portable fresh water containers (1 gallon or so) and then adding pink antifreeze to the gray and black may forestall freezing of other liquids added to those tanks, but there is no certainty. Furthermore, there are limits to the capacity of the grey and black tanks. Pink anti-freeze is good to about -51 F.  If we add pink antifreeze to our toilet after use, that will improve the freeze temperature of the black tank contents, but the antifreeze has been diluted and is no longer capable down to -51F.

The gray tank in my 210P has 23 US gallons capacity. The black tank has 10 US gallons capacity. When those tanks are full, we are then required to find running water and toilet facilities in fast food restaurants, restaurants, truck stops and so on, until the tanks are dumped. Some campgrounds do keep their bath and toilet facilities open in sub freezing conditions; some simply shut down for the winter.

Blog Post about Winterizing
http://roadtrek210.blogspot.com/2018/10/winterizing-water-system.html

What to do if we do get caught in a weather change to sub freezing conditions?
This happened to us once. We weren't winterized and we determined a sudden weather pattern change had occurred and sub freezing weather was coming. Predictions indicated we would experience lows below 15F for several days, unless we could travel out of the cold zone. This gave us mere hours to winterize. We dumped the fresh water tanks and water heater and then added pink (potable) anti freeze to the fresh system and the gray and black tanks, which did have some liquid in them.

But what if we had no pink anti freeze? In that case I would have dumped the fresh water tanks, opened all faucets and drained as much fresh water from the system as possible by gravity and also with the water pump (don't forget those outside shower lines and valves). I would consider remaining stationary and run the engine in an attempt to keep the underbody warm, and that includes the gray and black tanks, and any exposed piping. I would also have kept the interior at above normal temperature. At that point I would have crossed my fingers.

There are practical limits to this approach. If the weather falls into continuous sub freezing conditions for more than a day, well, there is only so much gasoline in the tank, and when moving there will be no engine heat in most of the underbody area.  In other words, I prefer to winterize under controlled conditions.

Have you ever dumped the gray and black tanks in sub freezing conditions?
For one thing the macerator is outside and might be at sub freezing temperatures. For another, that standard, thick green Roadtrek dump hose will be very stiff and you may not be able to get it to stretch.

We cut off that green hose in the box and attached a "Thetford" Sanicon slinky hose, which can extend to about 20 feet. However, it too becomes stiff in very cold weather.

All that remains of the original dump hose. Sanicon is black hose attached at the right

Thetford Sanicon hose on my Roadtrek, fully extended

Comfort Tips

Our lowest recorded outside morning temperature, while trekking and overnighting in the Roadtrek; in the morning our outside temperature monitor said we were at 3 F. This was the official temperature in Roswell NM that morning:

How we deal with cool to cold weather

• If you have a generator, keep it serviced and exercised. We have used our Onan 2.8 kW  in sub freezing conditions. Be sure you use oil rated for sub freezing if you are winter trekking. See the Onan manual about this.  I use Seafoam gasoline additive in the Chevy gas tank before exercising the generator, which assures there is additive in the carburetor bowl. If I use the Onan on a trek, when we stop and decide we won't be using it in the near future I add Seafoam to the gas tank again and run the generator and exercise it. This draws conditioned gasoline into the carburetor. In this manner I'm not adding Seafoam to my gas tank with every fill.  There are other additives, too. Use the one that you prefer. 
• Make sure your batteries are in good condition. More on coach batteries later in this post. For even more information, I have other blog posts on the AGM batteries in my Roadtrek, charging, etc. 
• We fill the propane tank before trekking and we conserve propane.  The hot water heater and the furnace require propane. So does the 3-way refrigerator if we are off the grid. The refrigerator works best on 120VAC or Propane. Running the refrigerator on 12VDC only can quickly draw down the coach batteries, so we avoid that. We don't use the dual burner cooktop. We save that precious propane commodity for comfort if trekking in cold weather. If we run out of propane the furnace won't work, nor will the hot water heater. Of course, we can run the Onan generator and we can heat water in the microwave if necessary but there is no substitute for the propane furnace if we are off of the grid and don't use the generator. 
• We travel with the expectation that the Onan generator may not start; that's never happened, but there is always a first time. If the Onan doesn't start then we only have 12VDC and Propane as energy sources when we are off the grid. The vehicle engine can be run to heat the interior. Our portable electric heater is a maximum 1500W and the Suburban propane furnace is 16,000 BTU. The furnace provides about three times the heat of the electric portable heater.  But we only have about 8 gallons of propane on board (10 gallon tank 80% fill). 
• I carry some spare parts and tools. I think some tools are essential, and I chose to carry a few spare parts, too. I have another blog post on this. A summary: I carry a spare anode for the hot water heater, assorted small batteries, fuses, wire, spare Thetford Sanicon hose, spare macerator pump, and an assortment of latches for this Roadtrek. Several lubricants (light oil, WD-40, lithium grease, silicone). Basic tools include screwdriver with replaceable bits including square, phillips, flat. A small hacksaw,  channel lock pliers, needle nose pliers, Volt-Ohm meter, ammeter, kill-a-watt electrical device, crescent wrench, socket set, 1-1/16 socket for anode, electrical tape, teflon pipe tape, duct tape, EternaBond White Mobile Home RV Rubber Roof Repair 4" wide, glues, assorted electrical connectors, crimping tool, soldering iron and solder, etc. etc. I probably carry more tools than most would, but when we stop I then use these tools for making any modifications I may desire. (Note: strictly speaking, WD-40 isn't a lubricant, but it is great for cleaning parts prior to applying a lubricant). I do carry two gallons of pink anti-freeze; we have had to re-winterize "on the fly" once, and having that allowed it to happen; we did it in a gas mart when a sudden weather change dropped temperatures from 50F to about 10F.
• Insulating door blanket or folding mattress. Put an insulator against the interior of the rear door. The doors have little or no insulation and a lot of metal surfaces and glass. Use Reflectix in the rear windows. Metal conducts heat from the interior of the coach to the cold outside. This cools the interior. You will feel this. Because we sleep in the rear and immediately adjacent to those doors, anything that insulates them makes sleeping more comfortable.  We have used the folding mattress for the 1st and 2nd seat for this, placing it on its side and with the "wings" folded in. The long section is 37 inches wide, and each "wing" is about 18 inches wide.  The width is anywhere between 54 inches or wider when used this way:

Roadtrek Mattress vertical for use as insulator - demonstration

• Add an electric heater if on shore power or the generator. The heat pump will only work to about 40F, but that isn't low enough to run the furnace, in my opinion. We use a 750/1500 watt 120V electric ceramic heater when the outside nighttime temperature falls below 40F.  Here's an example:

Typical small 740/1500 watt 120V heater

• Use an electric blanket. This can really make a difference when it gets cold. When not in use we roll it up and put it in a carry bag. 



Dual control electric blanket (only one control shown).

• Stage (sequence) the propane furnace. By setting the thermostat of the furnace at the lowest comfortable temperature while running the 120 VAC ceramic heater, it is possible to assure that the interior coach temperature doesn't fall too low and propane is conserved. If on shore power, the staging means that 120VAC electrical is used to heat the coach, and only if the temperature falls below what one thinks is comfortable will the furnace come on. For example, we set the "furnace" temperature at 65F while the ceramic electric heater is set higher.  However, the Roadtrek Dometic thermostat is very flexible. It can run the furnace, or it can run the furnace plus the heat pump fan, or it can run the heat pump fan continuously. One needs to set the the thermostat to accomplish this. We prefer to run only the furnace in winter. How to do this? To do so requires than one reads the thermostat manual. (If you don't have one, google or Bing "Dometic RV Thermostat" and you will be directed to YouTube videos, etc. If you google or Bing "Dometic RV Thermostat Manual" you will be directed to pdf files, etc. which provide instruction and can be viewed or downloaded). 

Dometic Thermostat

• Use a small multi-speed 12V fan to circulate air and minimize cold spots.  This small fan fits in the channel above the side entry door. The discharge is moveable. I also have a 12V extension to reach the dash power connector. 

12V DC Portable Fan

• A couple of versions of soft insulated grocery bags. We carry these with us and use them for shopping and extra storage for soft goods, extra groceries, etc. If the refrigerator should encounter issues we can transfer food to these and add ice, or if we want to carry cold beverages or extra vegetables, etc. we can use these.  

Insulated bags for groceries

Maintain ventilation and reduce moisture - avoid condensation

Everything we do in a RV results in moisture release into the air. Even exhaling releases moisture and that will raise the internal humidity. Cooking with propane releases moisture because one of the byproducts of burning propane is water vapor.  Cooking and boiling liquids will release water vapor into the interior.

It is important to keep this free moisture under control. Excessive moisture condenses on cold surfaces such as windows. It also adds to discomfiture because damp clothing will conduct heat from our bodies faster than dry clothing. "Cotton kills" is the old backpacking expression.

Easiest way to eliminate excess moisture that has built up in the interior is to keep the roof vent open. However in cold weather this will also release internal heat. So we prefer to avoid doing this.  If we adjust our approach to prevent interior moisture from building up, then simply normal in and out via the side door is sufficient to vent.  However, I don't put Reflectix on that side passenger door window. I can "pop" the window if I want to admit outside fresh air.

One can run the roof fan if things get out of hand. We added a Maxx-Air vent cover so we don't worry about wind or snow or sleet getting into the rig while the fan lid is "open." That works with keeping birds and insects out, too.  The also allows us to easily open the fan vent cover even in the worst weather conditions.

Vent Cover

Cooking techniques to reduce interior moisture and reduce condensation. 
Cooking can be a significant source of interior moisture. Because burning propane releases water vapor (it is a byproduct of combustion) we don't use the propane range top. Instead we use:

• Induction electric burner with cast iron.
• Microwave convection oven.

Cast iron. Easy to clean, does require seasoning after repeated use and cleaning. Use a small amount of oil, spread it on the interior and heat until it is glazed.  We cover the food when cooking to reduce moisture release into the interior.

Induction electric burner with cast iron griddle

Grilled Steak on inductive cooktop

Can cook almost everything with cast iron, even outdoors if it is dry
cover removed for photo

Microwave convection oven. Great for boiling water and general cooking. Again, we do keep things covered. A silicon vegetable cooker works well.

Silicone for cooking vegetables in the microwave

Convection Chicken

Understand Your Heat Sources
In our Roadtrek we have several heat sources. We added two more:

• Solar (sun striking the van and entering through windows),
• Heat Pump,
• Propane Furnace,
• Thermostat (which controls the above),
• 120V ceramic electrical heater (which we added),
• Dual control electric blanket (which we added),
• Reflectix. This doesn't add heat, but it does reduce heat loss, which is as valuable as any of the above,
• 250 Watt electric radiating panel (which we use in our TT and 5th wheel),
• Programmable 120V thermostat (which we use in our TT and 5th wheel to control the radiating panel).

The last two above are something to consider if you want an alternative to the 120V ceramic heater, or something to radiate energy into the sleeping area. However, the surface of these panels can get very hot. Which is why I have yet to use it in the small confines of the Roadtrek.

Sources of  Energy for heating and cooling
The sources of energy are what one has to rely upon in cool to cold weather. These include:

• Vehicle engine heat
• 120VAC shore power
• 120VAC generator
• Propane
• Solar heat or solar power
• 12V coach batteries (powers the furnace, etc.)

To heat the coach there has to be sufficient coach electrical energy available. For example, the propane furnace has a 12VDC blower and 12VDC ignition system. No 12VDC means no heat. These 12VDC systems will charge if on shore power, a generator or via solar. But when night falls, one must have sufficient electrical energy available. Or spend the night in sleeping bags.  I carry one sleeping bag, but we've never used it when trekking together. I have used it while "boondocking" alone.

As anyone who has spent any time winter camping can attest, merely sleeping in bags means a lot of moisture we exhale will condense and freeze on any cold surface. Back when tenting, we'd hang a towel over us to collect most of that moisture which was exhaled. The moisture was collected and froze on the towel......

In a RV moisture will collect and freeze on the coldest surfaces, and that includes the glass windows of your RV.

Solar Heat
We can benefit from solar energy. Parking with the RV facing the sun, so those solar rays enter the front of the RV can be very beneficial during daylight. Infrared energy turns to heat upon striking a solid object, be that the floor or the chairs, or you. (I'm not going to get into descriptions of black body energy situations, which are not useful for real world trekking).

Know the condition of your coach batteries
Batteries are extremely important if we are not connected to AC shore power, running the vehicle engine or an Onan generator. If fully charged, your batteries may provide you with sufficient 12VDC for the night, if you are not on 120VAC. However, repeatedly discharging AGM batteries below 50% will reduce their lifespan and capacity. For that reason I use a digital meter to determine the actual coach battery voltage. This provides me with the knowledge of when I really should begin recharging them. The lightbar in the Roadtrek is not sufficient in my opinion.

Here's some approximate battery data for AGM batteries:

• Full charge = 13.00 V.
• 80% charge = 12.50 V.
• 50% charge = 12.05V (minimum for extended battery life).
• 25% charge = 11.75V.

Roadtrek battery voltage (condition) indicator and alternatives:

Roadtrek Battery Voltage Indicator - very rough indication

Plug-in battery voltmeter, inexpensive, at Amazon and elsewhere

Location of 12V socket in  my 210P. Use a "splitter" to connect two things to this socket,
this is the location to plug in the 12V DC voltmeter

Our current coach battery monitor - measures and displays voltage and amperes.

Know the outside, interior and refrigerator temperatures

We have a couple of different approaches. The first is a typical time/date and temperature thermometer which includes a remote battery powered sensor. The remote can be put in an outside compartment to provide some idea of the outside temperature. In the photo taken at 6:38 am local time, the inside is 78.1F and the outside compartment is 15.4F. The actual outside temperature was lower.  We monitor the refrigerator temperature. This is more critical in hot weather. We simply want to avoid spoilage if something goes wrong and the temperature increases. We like to avoid unplanned stops. We carry a soft cooler bag for purchasing groceries, and we can always put critical food in it with ice if a refrigerator malfunction should occur. 

Coach and outside compartment temperature monitor - remote monitor is in outside compartment

Here's another inexpensive inside/outside digital thermometer. We use this to monitor the refrigerator, but the remote could certainly be used for outside temperature monitoring:

Temperature monitor with remote - we place the remote in the refrigerator

A real camping experience in an all electric Class B
This is what early morning in an all electric class B (not a Roadtrek) with solar panels and a small ceramic heater was like. We were on shore power. We've significantly improved on this:

Dawn at about 18F outside and cool inside

Here is the way it is in our Roadtrek, under similar conditions, after our improvements and adjustments. We were either on shore power or running the generator at the time of the photo:

Snug

Another Dawn - 33F, preparing to depart

Frozen in Texas

Frozen in Southern Indiana

Cold and damp in Georgia

Plugged in below freezing - that electric cord is very stiff at 15F. We are not using exterior water

Dawn,  6 F, the Reflectix has been stowed and we are about to move on

Having left the campground, we are headed to warmer conditions

Note:

1. I've made a few updates, to expand the post. 10/23/2019.

Disclaimer
I am not promoting winter camping. This post is about being comfortable in cool to cold weather and about the things we did to make our Roadtrek more comfortable in such conditions. There are other issues, including winterizing the water systems when it gets cold. The most recent Roadtrek manuals detail this very well, and are available on the Roadtrek official company website. I have a post about this.

Are we happy about trekking in below freezing conditions? We are very pleased with the ability of the 210P to keep us comfortable in cool to cold weather. We are also satisfied with the steps we have taken to improve our comfort and and we handle winter issues very well in the 210P.  It has been a learning experience and using some common sense.  We prefer to move beyond cold weather as quickly as practical when we do encounter it.......


Copyright (c) 2019 Norman Retzke "All Rights Reserved" See the disclaimer for this blog,
http://roadtrek210.blogspot.com/

Trekking in the Fall with Winter coming

Update October 21, 2017:
Over at FB I commented "My 2013 210P has two fresh water tanks and 2 gallons of RV antifreeze is enough. I rinse and drain the gray and black tanks multiple times, until clear. Then I drain the fresh water system as well as I can. I completely drain and rinse the hot water heater, then reinstall the anode. I then bypass the water heater. Then I add antifreeze to both fresh water tanks as recommended by Roadtrek in their 2015 210P "How To" manual section. I then follow the recommendations per the manual to pump the antifreeze throughout the fresh water system. However, once water no longer exits the spigots I catch the antifreeze in a bucket. That I save to add to the P-traps including the gray tank and also to the toilet. Works well for me."  One thing I do sometimes forget to do is to run the macerator after I've put antifreeze in the gray tank. That pushes the water out of the macerator and hose. However, I've never had a problem with the macerator. That may be because I carry a spare with me.

I have found the "How To" section in the 2015 210P manual to be very helpful. This is an updated manual which is available at the Roadtrek website. It can be found in the "Support" section.

For that reason, I suggest going to the Roadtrek source for information.


Original Posted September 23, 2017:
Over at Facebook some of the groups are now going back and forth about the necessity or not of winterizing a Class B, etc. in anticipation of below freezing travel.  Some seem to think that they can trek and beat the weather if it turns. Is winterizing necessary? I've included some additional info from the Roadtrek manual for a 210P at the end of this post. However, Roadtrek's online 210P 2016 manual states:

"Do you really need to winterize? If your Roadtrek is going to remain heated to comfortable temperatures, and the temperatures during the day are well above freezing (above 40 deg. F or above 4 deg. C) and the forecast is for temperatures just below freezing for a few hours at night with calm winds, then you don`t need to winterize. The heat in your Roadtrek is enough to keep the lines from freezing.

If the forecast is for extended cold periods, with daytime temperatures at or below freezing, if you`re not heating your Roadtrek, or if you expect sustained winds and the roads and ground is already frozen, you need to winterize.

As always, you are final judge and you need to do what is comfortable and makes you feel good. If you are not comfortable with leaving water in your lines when it gets cold, and you will sleep better, go ahead and winterize."

Here's a couple of our experiences.

The current chatter at FB could have been triggered by the reality of snow in Montana last week. Or perhaps just cooler weather in places like Bryce Canyon National Park, where the weather tonight will dip to 22F.

I chuckle when some say "I'll be travelling on I-10 and no one that far south needs to be concerned about freezing weather". Here's a photo taken by a work associate in New Orleans a few years ago, on December 10. Yes, that's a small snowman photographed in a mini-blizzard:

Making a snowman in New Orleans

Back in Northern IL it hit 98F at home today, where the heat index was 101F. In Tucson, AZ it is 84F! Where we are today it is currently 85F, with a breeze coming in from the lake. There is a big bike race tomorrow.

At the beach 11:00am

The weather will soon change. When it does there will a lot of discussion about "winterizing."

This is the time to figure it out. When the temperature drops below 25F it will be too late. You don't want to be in that predicament, do you?

Trekking through southern Indiana a few years ago on December 7 we encountered bad weather, as shown in the next photo. Yes, that is snow and ice. We did camp overnight, but with winterized tanks. We ran the propane furnace then switched to electric ceramic heater and the generator. We carry several jugs of water, 1.5 gallons or 2 gallons each. We also carry three gallons of pink RV antifreeze, even if we are already winterized. Here was the situation in Indiana on the morning of  December 8:

The following year we left Illinois in January during a warm trend. In Missouri it was about 50F and we spent the night in a RV park in Tulsa, OK. It was mild and we had water in the fresh water tanks. But there was a fast moving storm coming out of the west. We left early in the morning with temperature expected to reach 55F but by the time we got to Texas the temperature had dropped to a high for the day of 44F. As the winter storm approached the temperature continued to fall. We were headed toward Roswell NM and the weather updates changed the low to a much lower nighttime temperature. How low? The temperatures were predicted to go below 20F that night. On that trek, because it had been predicted that temperatures would be well above freezing during the day, but not below about 30F at night, we decided we didn't need to winterize. The weather did not cooperate. Now we were faced with a dilemma.

Well, en route and in the middle of the day we stopped to dump both fresh water tanks which were about 1/3 full. I left the outside tank drain valve open and allowed any water in the lines to trickle from the inside tank to the outside one and then onto the road. We stopped at a gas station as dusk approached. At that station we winterized right then and there, using the pink RV antifreeze I brought with me, and the funnel. There was blowing snow as we continued our journey.

By the time we got to Roswell it was dark and snowing with a lot of standing water in the town, from a downpour earlier in the day, when it was 50F. I drove into the RV park where we had a reservation (don't travel without it!); there were no sites available. Our reservation was the only thing that got us in, as RVers scrambled to find places with electric hook-ups to ride out the storm. I parked and hooked up the electrical. I didn't bother to hook up fresh water or the macerator hose. We powered everything up and had a good dinner. Afterwards we settled down for the night, using the electric ceramic heater we bring with us (750/1500 watt) and if necessary we run the propane furnace. Yes, I do fill the propane tank before any of these treks. Because of our winter seasonal experiences we have since added a dual control electric blanket. Now that's toasty warm!

We got up before dawn so we could have a nice breakfast before continuing on our journey.  The storm had blown out and the really cold front had blown in. Sunrise was at 6:59am.

Dawn at 9F

While cooking breakfast I checked the weather and our inside/outside temperature display.  The temperature inside an outside storage compartment was about 6F warmer than outside ambient.

Inside temperature and in one of the rear outside compartments (clock on CST)

The 30 ampere power cord was stiff with cold, making coiling difficult. As we left the town we encountered a winter wonderland. The standing water had frozen solid with a layer of snow on top:

With the sun rising, we left Roswell, NM and headed west, southwest:

Three hours later we were still driving through a frozen countryside, en route to Las Cruces, NM:

When we approached Las Cruces, we finally reached the end of snowfall, but the temperature outside was below freezing:

Continuing on, we encountered snow on the ground at noon, and it wasn't until 2:00pm that we had finally left the snow behind us:

At 4:00PM we pulled into our destination. Temperatures were mild, in the 50s and with a low expected of 38F that night:

What does Roadtrek say about this?
I think it is important to follow the manufacturer's guidelines. If one fails to do so, then one can void warranties.

Roadtrek has manuals that are good. They even include "How To" sections.  My 210P is a bit more complex than some class Bs because it has two fresh water tanks. One is inside and the other is outside. Because of this arrangement, there are valves to select which tank is to be filled via city water and which is to be used. Roadtrek includes "summer" instructions which use the outside and inside tank, and also includes "winter" instructions in which the exterior tank is drained and isolated via valves. During "winter" operation only the interior fresh water tank is used.

Anyone can go to Roadtrek's website and download the manuals they are interested in, as well as the "How To" guides and run videos.

So what does Roadtrek say about winterizing a 210P?

The 2016 210P manual states that "In winter mode, remember that you need to keep the interior temperature at least 60 degrees F (15 C) by running the propane furnace or heat pump, and keep the water heater running. Also remember that the waste water tanks are not protected from freezing. If you use them, mix pink RV antifreeze with whatever you put down the drain 50/50. If you do not use them, drain and winterize the waste water system."

In HOWTO: Summer and Winter Mode the manual states:

"The 190 and 210 Popular models have the capability to operate in mildly sub-freezing conditions, provided the water system is properly configured. To better understand this it is best to know how the plumbing is configured. The diagrams below show how water is supplied in each mode. Solid triangles are closed valves; hollow triangles are open valves. [see diagrams in manual].

In summer mode, both fresh water tanks are in use. The interior tank is inside the vehicle and is filled via the gravity fill in the back door frame, and the exterior tank is below the vehicle, and filled via the gravity fill in the driver's door post. The water line between the two is open, so water flows from the higher interior tank to the lower exterior tank as the water pump draws water from the exterior tank. In winter mode, the line between the two tanks is closed, and the exterior tank is drained to prevent it from freezing. The outside shower water lines are closed and drained to prevent them from freezing, and the water pump draws water from the interior tank, which is protected from freezing by cabin heat. The hot water heater will also not freeze if left running. In this way, hot and cold running water continues to be supplied to the galley sink, toilet, and shower.

"Winter mode" and "winterized" are two different things. Winter mode protects the water in the system from mildly sub-freezing conditions as long as the Roadtrek is adequately heated and in use. If you plan extended stays in sub-freezing conditions or if you store your vehicle in freezing conditions, you must winterize to avoid damage to the water system. To prepare your vehicle for really cold weather, see HOW TO: Water System Winterizing • "

The 2016 210P manual includes photos, diagrams and detailed instructions. Of course, it makes sense to check the manual for your specific model and year. However, in 2014 Roadtrek made major improvements to their manuals. I have  combined the improved online manual with the one that came with my Roadtrek. That is because the manuals after 2013 provide more photos and expanded "How To" instructions. Of course, one does have to check the plumbing in their RT to determine if it matches a manual for a later model year.

The "How To" sections about the fresh plumbing include:

• Summer and Winter Mode
• Switching from Summer to Winter Mode
• Switching from Winter to Summer Mode
•  Water System Winterizing